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	<title>Comments on: WETA Plans Changes for East Bay Ferries</title>
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	<link>http://transbayblog.com/2009/04/07/weta-plans-changes-for-east-bay-ferries/</link>
	<description>Transportation and urban planning in the San Francisco Bay Area</description>
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		<title>By: Chris valenta</title>
		<link>http://transbayblog.com/2009/04/07/weta-plans-changes-for-east-bay-ferries/#comment-9310</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris valenta]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Nov 2010 21:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transbayblog.com/?p=3572#comment-9310</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Can you give me timeline of ferry coming to antioch?  Thank you!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you give me timeline of ferry coming to antioch?  Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Norman</title>
		<link>http://transbayblog.com/2009/04/07/weta-plans-changes-for-east-bay-ferries/#comment-7080</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Norman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transbayblog.com/?p=3572#comment-7080</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you read the full plan as it is currently drafted, there are just scores of problems and assumptions.

First and foremost my question (in an email I sent to WETA) is WHY? Why did we need WETA (other than to fullfill the &quot;dream&quot; of Ron Cowan (a support and ally of Don Perrata). Seems rather stupid for the state to be buying the ferries from the cities, just to create this boondoggle. And WHY did the GG Ferries get spared, they have the biggest boats on the bay, seems like they would come in handy during an emergency, right?

The two ferries they plan on using for the Berkeley to SF line are only going to carry 199 passengers. One is going to cost 11million and the other 17 million. The terminal and ferry landing is currently estimated at 35 million (even though they have no clear idea on where that landing might be, and you know once they do, there will be years of lawsuits because of it). The are also buying two &quot;spare&quot; boats, that will only hold 149 passengers. A typical bart car seats 65, so during a commute it is safe to assume that there are 100 people per car. So the average 10 car train holds 1000 people during commute hours. That would take the berkeley ferry 5 trips to move the same amount of people as a single bart train. Sounds like an expensive trip.

WETA is also expecting the Port of Oakland, and the City of Alemeda to continue to provide funding (both in actual dollars and in kind funding by the Port for free parking). When these ferries are no longer run by Alameda, what motivation does either entity have for spending their money on the ferry service? Part of the funding from Alameda comes from their street light assessment fee&#039;s! 

Lastly, it seems like WETA is making assumptions, based on things that they don&#039;t talk about in their plan. The very popular weekend service to Fisherman&#039;s Wharf from Alameda/Oakland is made possible by the fact that the marine services are provided by the Blue and Gold Fleet. B&amp;G also runs the Vallejo ferry for the city of Vallejo. The Harbor bay ferry is run by a different company, and thus only goes to the SF Ferry Building and back. Also, none of the GG Ferries land at the Wharf, they also only go to the Ferry Building. B&amp;G does run it&#039;s own ferry service to Sausalito, but no public money goes into that line). The Vallejo, Alameda Oakland, and Harbor Bay lines would all be put up for bid as a single service contract. If B&amp;G bids but does not win, does this mean the end to the Wharf landings? (B&amp;G owns or leases the rights to those landings, and would want to charge a fee for another service to land there). Or maybe WETA just expects to end the service to the Wharf and instead tell everyone to drive to the Wharf instead?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you read the full plan as it is currently drafted, there are just scores of problems and assumptions.</p>
<p>First and foremost my question (in an email I sent to WETA) is WHY? Why did we need WETA (other than to fullfill the &#8220;dream&#8221; of Ron Cowan (a support and ally of Don Perrata). Seems rather stupid for the state to be buying the ferries from the cities, just to create this boondoggle. And WHY did the GG Ferries get spared, they have the biggest boats on the bay, seems like they would come in handy during an emergency, right?</p>
<p>The two ferries they plan on using for the Berkeley to SF line are only going to carry 199 passengers. One is going to cost 11million and the other 17 million. The terminal and ferry landing is currently estimated at 35 million (even though they have no clear idea on where that landing might be, and you know once they do, there will be years of lawsuits because of it). The are also buying two &#8220;spare&#8221; boats, that will only hold 149 passengers. A typical bart car seats 65, so during a commute it is safe to assume that there are 100 people per car. So the average 10 car train holds 1000 people during commute hours. That would take the berkeley ferry 5 trips to move the same amount of people as a single bart train. Sounds like an expensive trip.</p>
<p>WETA is also expecting the Port of Oakland, and the City of Alemeda to continue to provide funding (both in actual dollars and in kind funding by the Port for free parking). When these ferries are no longer run by Alameda, what motivation does either entity have for spending their money on the ferry service? Part of the funding from Alameda comes from their street light assessment fee&#8217;s! </p>
<p>Lastly, it seems like WETA is making assumptions, based on things that they don&#8217;t talk about in their plan. The very popular weekend service to Fisherman&#8217;s Wharf from Alameda/Oakland is made possible by the fact that the marine services are provided by the Blue and Gold Fleet. B&amp;G also runs the Vallejo ferry for the city of Vallejo. The Harbor bay ferry is run by a different company, and thus only goes to the SF Ferry Building and back. Also, none of the GG Ferries land at the Wharf, they also only go to the Ferry Building. B&amp;G does run it&#8217;s own ferry service to Sausalito, but no public money goes into that line). The Vallejo, Alameda Oakland, and Harbor Bay lines would all be put up for bid as a single service contract. If B&amp;G bids but does not win, does this mean the end to the Wharf landings? (B&amp;G owns or leases the rights to those landings, and would want to charge a fee for another service to land there). Or maybe WETA just expects to end the service to the Wharf and instead tell everyone to drive to the Wharf instead?</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://transbayblog.com/2009/04/07/weta-plans-changes-for-east-bay-ferries/#comment-7029</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transbayblog.com/?p=3572#comment-7029</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I also have many reservations about ferries, including those you listed. Unfortunately, I didn&#039;t really have any time to get into my own opinion on this issue, and limited the post to just a factual presentation. So thanks for the jump-start to the discussion.

Much of the proposed route expansion is not all that well-conceived. The oft-touted Oyster Point line has a depressing and inadequate connection to Caltrain, creating a more-or-less single-market route that would serve merely several hundred daily riders. On the other hand, ferries really could be critical in an emergency scenario if all other transportation lifelines fail. One question is: what is the minimum ferry investment we&#039;d need to make to create an effective emergency mobilization force, without redirecting too many regional monies to what is bound to remain a low-ridership service?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also have many reservations about ferries, including those you listed. Unfortunately, I didn&#8217;t really have any time to get into my own opinion on this issue, and limited the post to just a factual presentation. So thanks for the jump-start to the discussion.</p>
<p>Much of the proposed route expansion is not all that well-conceived. The oft-touted Oyster Point line has a depressing and inadequate connection to Caltrain, creating a more-or-less single-market route that would serve merely several hundred daily riders. On the other hand, ferries really could be critical in an emergency scenario if all other transportation lifelines fail. One question is: what is the minimum ferry investment we&#8217;d need to make to create an effective emergency mobilization force, without redirecting too many regional monies to what is bound to remain a low-ridership service?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://transbayblog.com/2009/04/07/weta-plans-changes-for-east-bay-ferries/#comment-7028</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transbayblog.com/?p=3572#comment-7028</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know how I feel about ferries.  Each new line costs something like 25 million, and each line is only projected to carry a mere 1,000-2,000 passengers by 2025 (in contrast, Larkspur gets 5,500).  Considering most of these passengers will drive to the terminal, and even the cleanest ferries still pollute more than buses, many of the proposals are pointless, particularly the Redwood City line (why not put that money into Caltrain?), and the Antioch line (who&#039;s gonna ride a ferry for nearly 2 hours?).  The Berkeley ferry could potentially be okay (it&#039;s the only ferry with over 2,000 projected daily riders), but it would need to be integrated into the bicycle boulevard network and offer discounts to bicyclists (so they wouldn&#039;t have to pay $6-12 bucks to also subsidize parking).  Hercules also has some potential, since it is centered around the new city center development and would have an intermodal terminal with the new Capital Corridor station and WestCat, yet it&#039;s only projected to get 1,000 riders.  I get that ferries are important for emergency preparedness, but some of these lines are just plain wasteful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know how I feel about ferries.  Each new line costs something like 25 million, and each line is only projected to carry a mere 1,000-2,000 passengers by 2025 (in contrast, Larkspur gets 5,500).  Considering most of these passengers will drive to the terminal, and even the cleanest ferries still pollute more than buses, many of the proposals are pointless, particularly the Redwood City line (why not put that money into Caltrain?), and the Antioch line (who&#8217;s gonna ride a ferry for nearly 2 hours?).  The Berkeley ferry could potentially be okay (it&#8217;s the only ferry with over 2,000 projected daily riders), but it would need to be integrated into the bicycle boulevard network and offer discounts to bicyclists (so they wouldn&#8217;t have to pay $6-12 bucks to also subsidize parking).  Hercules also has some potential, since it is centered around the new city center development and would have an intermodal terminal with the new Capital Corridor station and WestCat, yet it&#8217;s only projected to get 1,000 riders.  I get that ferries are important for emergency preparedness, but some of these lines are just plain wasteful.</p>
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