Also, the transit systems should start showing maps that include all systems prominently, not just their own. It would help people recognize intermodal opportunities.

I find points to agree with both JimS and Eric on, and I think this argument would be moot if we could get more people to think of transit as something that deserves to be funded, not something that should compete for a limited, nominal pool of funding. (because I think Eric’s argument is more that BART to SJ ain’t worth the cost, not that something like it wouldn’t be a useful addition to the BART system)

I hate hate hate the idea that everything has to be either/or! If both projects have merit then both should be funded!

And I think that if we, the transit geeks who read Eric’s blog, are afraid to say it’s silly to be so hamstrung then we’ll never convince policy makers otherwise. So I officially file my loony objection to pitting any two worthy transit projects against each other and instead argue that we should invest more in our transit infrastructure. Especially now that people who have a choice are really starting to ride.

(And in the future I pledge to keep arguing at the extreme pro-transit edge, so everyone else can take comfort knowing that their views sound moderate by comparison)

8 stations doesn’t include the optional one at Irvington right?

I remember people in Fremont were pushing for an Irvington station as well as Warm Springs.

Also new article in the examiner about “surging” ridership for BART to SFO:

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/BART_ridership_to_SFO_soars.html

“on a purely aesthetic level, there is something to be said for having the entire Bay Area unified under a single rail system. But that is something we won’t have, nor is it something we should pursue. ”

I think the unification of Bay Area rail could equally be served by TransLink, better organization in signs, etc. and not actually one physical system. If we had a system where you could use Caltrain, BART, Muni (metro and buses) for one monthly or yearly pass (anywhere and not just SF) or on a single card, I think that would solve most of the unification issues. You could just rename everything under the umbrella “translink program”

There are two points I’d emphasize here with respect to Baby Bullet service, as it stands now:
(1) During morning and evening peak, Caltrain sends out 14-15 trains over the 3-hour peak period, in each direction. On average, that’s about 1 train every 12-13 minutes, in each direction, even with current infrastructure and at-grade crossings.
(2) Caltrain’s local service is indeed slow, but let’s do a comparison of its Baby Bullet service, which is the primary source of new riders since 2004. A Baby Bullet train executes a 32-mile trip from SF to Palo Alto in 37 minutes; meanwhile, a BART train from 12th Street to Fremont executes a 27-mile trip in 36 minutes. The BART train stops a lot more than Caltrain, but then again, Caltrain could also stop more often if it were electrified.

Combining (1) and (2) above, we see that at least at peak hours, Caltrain manages to put out a respectable number of trains. Not at all shabby for a commuter rail line that has pulled itself out of the hole — not by demanding billions of dollars, but by exhibiting creativity and working within its means. And here’s something that cannot be overemphasized:

Constructing Baby Bullet cost less than one-third of one mile of BART to San Jose (even at the most conservative estimate of the cost of BART to SJ).

And yet, the service the Baby Bullet has provided is timewise very competitive with (in fact, better than) BART, even with its current infrastructure. Caltrain also provides a higher quality riding experience than BART for long distance, in terms of comfort. Of course grade separations would increase the cost of electrification, but the system can be electrified even without separation at each and every crossing. Grade separations at key at-grade crossings could be phased in on an incremental basis. CME would be a more expensive proposition, but still far less than BART. Why, then, pursue further outward BART extensions?

I would argue that ROW quality, which you claim has a big effect on your own travel choices, does not greatly affect the travel choices of the population at large, at least with respect to BART vs. Caltrain. Caltrain riders were theoretically projected to transfer to BART at Millbrae to go downtown. These riders, in practice, stay on Caltrain because the Baby Bullet is faster. Do people think: “I should really switch to BART, because it has no at-grade crossings”? Of course not: their decision is influenced by travel time, ticket cost, and other considerations — but not ROW quality. Most riders probably don’t pay any attention at all to ROW quality, unless it has a very detrimental effect on travel time, which it doesn’t in the case of the Baby Bullet.

And finally: on a purely aesthetic level, there is something to be said for having the entire Bay Area unified under a single rail system. But that is something we won’t have, nor is it something we should pursue. Moreover, we are dealing with a ballot measure, so we can’t forget the case-specific details that bring this more general discussion into the real world. VTA has been hanging off the cliff of financial ruin for years; that same agency cut bus service while simultaneously looking to live beyond its means with a BART extension that it cannot afford. In this context, I think it would be irresponsible for VTA to execute planning and decision-making on the basis of aesthetics.

This is not to say that VTA should not pursue rail expansion in its jurisdiction. It certainly should: but it needs to pursue rail expansion that it can afford. Jeopardizing service across the whole county just so downtown SJ can have a subway is not sound planning. Sure, you can point to advantages of such a tunnel — but will it provide $6-10 billion worth of advantages? Simply put, the expense of BART is disproportional as compared to the service it provides in the suburbs. What VTA needs now is good bang for the buck, which BART is anything but.

Still, do read how I expanded on it.

Would you be in favor of ripping out the BART trackage and using its ROW as an extension of Caltrain? Would that make things better?

My argument here is that the problem revolves entirely around ROW. The higher cost of the broad gauge BART uses is not what makes it the more expensive alternative — it’s the cost of building the ROW. Whether we use a fast Indian train or a fast European train (or if we got our act together, a fast American train) is irrelevant.

There’s a reason I still take BART’s circuitous route down the peninsula instead of Caltrain — even though the ROW is longer and slower, it’s of higher quality. If an express Caltrain left from a downtown station every 15 minutes, or even every 20 minutes, I’d gladly take it instead (assuming my destination was Millbrae, or hypothetically SFO if it connected). The problem is that, even with electrification, they could not maintain that headway. Can you imagine the outcry if Caltrain came zooming through its existing tracks every 7 minutes (a local and an express every 15 minutes)? Nobody would stand for it.

When HSR gets built with a high-quality ROW, with a downtown station, I know I’ll be taking Caltrain down the peninsula a heck of a lot more.

Build me CME to those same specifications (and extend the ROW from Diridon to at least a stub that goes to SJSU) and I’d definitely become more of a supporter, but then it wouldn’t be so cheap, would it?