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	<title>Comments on: Subway Dream (East Bay)</title>
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	<link>http://transbayblog.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/</link>
	<description>Transportation and urban planning in the San Francisco Bay Area</description>
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		<title>By: I Have Seen The Future And It Involves A Bus (Or A Train, Or A Bike) &#124; Redfin San Francisco Sweet Digs</title>
		<link>http://transbayblog.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-5237</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[I Have Seen The Future And It Involves A Bus (Or A Train, Or A Bike) &#124; Redfin San Francisco Sweet Digs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transbay.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-5237</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] there are visionaries out there who are doing some long-range thinking. Have a look at this Subway Dream Map for the East Bay conceived by Transbay [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] there are visionaries out there who are doing some long-range thinking. Have a look at this Subway Dream Map for the East Bay conceived by Transbay [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MikeD</title>
		<link>http://transbayblog.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-4283</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transbay.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-4283</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree an Emeryville-West Oakland BART Connection shouldn&#039;t be part of a dream map, because it would be so easy to start running.  

It would take 10 minutes according to google maps (avoiding the freeway, 9 minutes on the 80+880 but I don&#039;t trust the Maze in traffic) and that would be going through that street that points to Best Buy.  That&#039;s the same amount of time it takes no to take the Emery-Go-Round to MacArthur, and you have BART stops to worry about.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree an Emeryville-West Oakland BART Connection shouldn&#8217;t be part of a dream map, because it would be so easy to start running.  </p>
<p>It would take 10 minutes according to google maps (avoiding the freeway, 9 minutes on the 80+880 but I don&#8217;t trust the Maze in traffic) and that would be going through that street that points to Best Buy.  That&#8217;s the same amount of time it takes no to take the Emery-Go-Round to MacArthur, and you have BART stops to worry about.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://transbayblog.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-4094</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 23:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transbay.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-4094</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MikeD, that particular connection was something I was planning on addressing with a BRT connection, though Caps is another good option. This map looks a little sparse (especially West Oakland and Alameda) because it&#039;s a BART map, and so it really just addresses the biggest trunk corridors. This map is a fantasy in the truest sense -- not something we should try to build at this point, more of a thought exercise, really. BRT is a different story, though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MikeD, that particular connection was something I was planning on addressing with a BRT connection, though Caps is another good option. This map looks a little sparse (especially West Oakland and Alameda) because it&#8217;s a BART map, and so it really just addresses the biggest trunk corridors. This map is a fantasy in the truest sense &#8212; not something we should try to build at this point, more of a thought exercise, really. BRT is a different story, though.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeD</title>
		<link>http://transbayblog.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-4093</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 23:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transbay.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-4093</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Emeryville should get a good connection with West Oakald BART set up.   Either using rails (you can see the Amtrak yard from West Oakland BART) or busses (maybe down Mandela Parkway, maybe requiring a bus only ramp direct from the Shellmound/40th curve to Mandela.  Emeryville is on the path to more vertical growth and is a good setting for it, but it could benefit itself and everyone else using the Bay Bridge if it had a better connection to BART.  Taking the Emery-Go-Round to MacArthur takes a while and still required you to ride BART all through Oakland before you get to The City.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emeryville should get a good connection with West Oakald BART set up.   Either using rails (you can see the Amtrak yard from West Oakland BART) or busses (maybe down Mandela Parkway, maybe requiring a bus only ramp direct from the Shellmound/40th curve to Mandela.  Emeryville is on the path to more vertical growth and is a good setting for it, but it could benefit itself and everyone else using the Bay Bridge if it had a better connection to BART.  Taking the Emery-Go-Round to MacArthur takes a while and still required you to ride BART all through Oakland before you get to The City.</p>
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		<title>By: Reading about the O: Blogs &#171; Living in the O</title>
		<link>http://transbayblog.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-3375</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reading about the O: Blogs &#171; Living in the O]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 05:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transbay.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-3375</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] issues you&#8217;re having or the dreams you envision for Bay Area transit. I especially loved his East Bay Subway Dream post, where he literally maps out what could be the future of BART if we put more funding into [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] issues you&#8217;re having or the dreams you envision for Bay Area transit. I especially loved his East Bay Subway Dream post, where he literally maps out what could be the future of BART if we put more funding into [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://transbayblog.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-3032</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 06:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transbay.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-3032</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Speaking of the 1 and 1R: Would you believe that their combined ridership is only about one-sixth, on a per-mile basis, of that on Geary?&lt;/i&gt;
My own quick estimates had pegged it about 20% (daily on the 1/1R is about 24-25K, I think), but Geary is a bit shorter than I usually think, so one-sixth sounds about right. As much as we gripe, service on Geary is actually pretty decent, at least in terms of having regular buses, and the chronic issues can&#039;t really be seriously approached without new infrastructure.

Definitely more buses on the 1/1R. Without dedicated lanes, that will only help so much, with the buses still fighting against traffic, but decreasing wait times will be a help. Just based on anecdotal evidence, there are still considerable gaps in service, even with running both 1 and 1R buses.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Speaking of the 1 and 1R: Would you believe that their combined ridership is only about one-sixth, on a per-mile basis, of that on Geary?</i><br />
My own quick estimates had pegged it about 20% (daily on the 1/1R is about 24-25K, I think), but Geary is a bit shorter than I usually think, so one-sixth sounds about right. As much as we gripe, service on Geary is actually pretty decent, at least in terms of having regular buses, and the chronic issues can&#8217;t really be seriously approached without new infrastructure.</p>
<p>Definitely more buses on the 1/1R. Without dedicated lanes, that will only help so much, with the buses still fighting against traffic, but decreasing wait times will be a help. Just based on anecdotal evidence, there are still considerable gaps in service, even with running both 1 and 1R buses.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://transbayblog.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-3031</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 06:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transbay.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-3031</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Speaking of the 1 and 1R: Would you believe that their combined ridership is only about one-sixth, on a per-mile basis, of that on Geary? I know, it&#039;s odd--the differences in density are not that great, certainly not over the lengths of the corridors. But East Bay transit ridership in general doesn&#039;t come close to that in the city. Say what you will about Muni, but I suspect the difference has a lot to do with service levels: the 38 and 38L come every couple minutes at rush hour, while the Intel buses have a combined headway of something like seven minutes peak. Which suggests that while it might be less cost-effective, you could certainly improve InTel transit ridership simply by running more buses.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of the 1 and 1R: Would you believe that their combined ridership is only about one-sixth, on a per-mile basis, of that on Geary? I know, it&#8217;s odd&#8211;the differences in density are not that great, certainly not over the lengths of the corridors. But East Bay transit ridership in general doesn&#8217;t come close to that in the city. Say what you will about Muni, but I suspect the difference has a lot to do with service levels: the 38 and 38L come every couple minutes at rush hour, while the Intel buses have a combined headway of something like seven minutes peak. Which suggests that while it might be less cost-effective, you could certainly improve InTel transit ridership simply by running more buses.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://transbayblog.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-3028</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 05:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transbay.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-3028</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your thoughts, Steve. Actually, a lot of what you&#039;ve said has mirrored some of my own thoughts -- so to flesh this out a bit more:

In some sense, the East Bay half of this is more &quot;fantastical&quot; than the San Francisco half, perhaps because there has been much less official thought or guidance on the issue. The introductory comment on this whole subway dream -- that this is what &lt;i&gt;could have&lt;/i&gt; been done in the past, rather than what should be done now -- is especially true of the East Bay map.

As to your comment about putting surface LRT here in place of BART subway: I think you&#039;re absolutely right, that would probably be enough. The 1/1R, at least the Oakland sections of it, appears to be quite popular, but ridership is still a lot less than the 38/38L on Geary, even though the 1/1R route is double the length of Geary. The demand is less, and so you&#039;re right that really, even a robust BRT will be enough. Make it rail-ready and upgrade it to LRT to boost ridership and also to encourage more infill on Broadway, Telegraph, and East 14th. 

Good point on West Oakland and Alameda. They definitely did get the short shrift on this map, and on other versions of this map, both neighborhoods have received better service. On another version, the MacArthur line (which terminates at Emeryville on this map), continues southward to serve West Oakland, and I think other versions did something else altogether. 
One reason why Alameda got no service in this map is because it is a BART map, and, well, BART costs a lot. On the more realistic BRT map, there would definitely be improved service in that area.

&lt;i&gt;Of course Emeryville already has standard-gauge tracks and an existing station that could be put to much better use. Have you thought about conventional rail as an alternative to BART? The westernmost edge of West Oakland — which just so happens to be undergoing intense redevelopment already — would be well served by an infill station on the Caps corridor.&lt;/i&gt;
This is a great point, which also raises an important general point about this map. Service should be improved on these identified corridors, and in West Oakland, dependent on what happens there. BRT? Build it now, and blindfold everyone in Berkeley until it&#039;s built. Surface LRT? A worthwhile investment for at least some of this map. (Though for at least the latter of those, the College Ave segment could be problematic.) But BART? This map was basically an exercise in fun BART expansions, and as much as I&#039;d love to ride the system in this map, I can&#039;t responsibly condone that we spend the billions upon billions required to make it a reality. One way to avoid that is to redo existing infrastructure. I&#039;d really like to see better use of the Caps corridor in general, and this move would hopefully change people&#039;s perceptions about this corridor.

&lt;i&gt;I’ve always had a soft spot for streetcars in central Oakland as well.&lt;/i&gt;
Now here&#039;s something I&#039;d really like to see-- particularly if the streetcars circled the Lake.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your thoughts, Steve. Actually, a lot of what you&#8217;ve said has mirrored some of my own thoughts &#8212; so to flesh this out a bit more:</p>
<p>In some sense, the East Bay half of this is more &#8220;fantastical&#8221; than the San Francisco half, perhaps because there has been much less official thought or guidance on the issue. The introductory comment on this whole subway dream &#8212; that this is what <i>could have</i> been done in the past, rather than what should be done now &#8212; is especially true of the East Bay map.</p>
<p>As to your comment about putting surface LRT here in place of BART subway: I think you&#8217;re absolutely right, that would probably be enough. The 1/1R, at least the Oakland sections of it, appears to be quite popular, but ridership is still a lot less than the 38/38L on Geary, even though the 1/1R route is double the length of Geary. The demand is less, and so you&#8217;re right that really, even a robust BRT will be enough. Make it rail-ready and upgrade it to LRT to boost ridership and also to encourage more infill on Broadway, Telegraph, and East 14th. </p>
<p>Good point on West Oakland and Alameda. They definitely did get the short shrift on this map, and on other versions of this map, both neighborhoods have received better service. On another version, the MacArthur line (which terminates at Emeryville on this map), continues southward to serve West Oakland, and I think other versions did something else altogether.<br />
One reason why Alameda got no service in this map is because it is a BART map, and, well, BART costs a lot. On the more realistic BRT map, there would definitely be improved service in that area.</p>
<p><i>Of course Emeryville already has standard-gauge tracks and an existing station that could be put to much better use. Have you thought about conventional rail as an alternative to BART? The westernmost edge of West Oakland — which just so happens to be undergoing intense redevelopment already — would be well served by an infill station on the Caps corridor.</i><br />
This is a great point, which also raises an important general point about this map. Service should be improved on these identified corridors, and in West Oakland, dependent on what happens there. BRT? Build it now, and blindfold everyone in Berkeley until it&#8217;s built. Surface LRT? A worthwhile investment for at least some of this map. (Though for at least the latter of those, the College Ave segment could be problematic.) But BART? This map was basically an exercise in fun BART expansions, and as much as I&#8217;d love to ride the system in this map, I can&#8217;t responsibly condone that we spend the billions upon billions required to make it a reality. One way to avoid that is to redo existing infrastructure. I&#8217;d really like to see better use of the Caps corridor in general, and this move would hopefully change people&#8217;s perceptions about this corridor.</p>
<p><i>I’ve always had a soft spot for streetcars in central Oakland as well.</i><br />
Now here&#8217;s something I&#8217;d really like to see&#8211; particularly if the streetcars circled the Lake.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://transbayblog.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-3023</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 04:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transbay.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-3023</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK: having just said in the other thread that I wouldn&#039;t be too critical ... that&#039;s exactly what I&#039;m about to do ;-)

Let me first say that I think you&#039;re going in the right direction with the corridors, although I&#039;d double-check AC Transit ridership data, or at least the potential BRT corridors they&#039;ve already identified. I believe Alameda has as much potential as any of the others here save InTel, and so might West Oakland if it&#039;s redeveloped as some have envisioned (mind you, there&#039;s a whole gentrification issue there that I&#039;m not even going to touch for the moment).

But then that&#039;s the problem: Are any of these really subway-worthy corridors? Even long-term? I may have been conditioned by my experience in the U.S. to set the bar too high, but I suspect the wiser course might be surface LRT. Of course to make that work, you&#039;d need to get serious about reallocation of rights-of-way--Berkeley NIMBYs be damned. I&#039;ve always had a soft spot for streetcars in central Oakland as well.

Now, one place in the East Bay that doesn&#039;t have BART service, and really should: Emeryville. Of course Emeryville already has standard-gauge tracks and an existing station that could be put to much better use. Have you thought about conventional rail as an alternative to BART? The westernmost edge of West Oakland -- which just so happens to be undergoing intense redevelopment already -- would be well served by an infill station on the Caps corridor. The Regional Rail Plan also suggested a multimodal station at existing West Oakland BART.

One last thing: If that line on your map from downtown Oak to a new tube really does run under Alameda, you probably should have a station or two at Point Alameda, as BART has proposed.

But really, Eric: You&#039;ve done a solid here. I&#039;m impressed, and I&#039;ll bet lots of other people are, too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK: having just said in the other thread that I wouldn&#8217;t be too critical &#8230; that&#8217;s exactly what I&#8217;m about to do ;-)</p>
<p>Let me first say that I think you&#8217;re going in the right direction with the corridors, although I&#8217;d double-check AC Transit ridership data, or at least the potential BRT corridors they&#8217;ve already identified. I believe Alameda has as much potential as any of the others here save InTel, and so might West Oakland if it&#8217;s redeveloped as some have envisioned (mind you, there&#8217;s a whole gentrification issue there that I&#8217;m not even going to touch for the moment).</p>
<p>But then that&#8217;s the problem: Are any of these really subway-worthy corridors? Even long-term? I may have been conditioned by my experience in the U.S. to set the bar too high, but I suspect the wiser course might be surface LRT. Of course to make that work, you&#8217;d need to get serious about reallocation of rights-of-way&#8211;Berkeley NIMBYs be damned. I&#8217;ve always had a soft spot for streetcars in central Oakland as well.</p>
<p>Now, one place in the East Bay that doesn&#8217;t have BART service, and really should: Emeryville. Of course Emeryville already has standard-gauge tracks and an existing station that could be put to much better use. Have you thought about conventional rail as an alternative to BART? The westernmost edge of West Oakland &#8212; which just so happens to be undergoing intense redevelopment already &#8212; would be well served by an infill station on the Caps corridor. The Regional Rail Plan also suggested a multimodal station at existing West Oakland BART.</p>
<p>One last thing: If that line on your map from downtown Oak to a new tube really does run under Alameda, you probably should have a station or two at Point Alameda, as BART has proposed.</p>
<p>But really, Eric: You&#8217;ve done a solid here. I&#8217;m impressed, and I&#8217;ll bet lots of other people are, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://transbayblog.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-2855</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transbay.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/subway-dream-east-bay/#comment-2855</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Timosha,

There are certainly any number of places these lines could have gone -- in some versions of this map, there was also a line covering West Oakland and San Pablo, or the current line ending in Emeryville could turn south to West Oakland. I&#039;ve tried to temper this by realistic considerations of ridership patterns and development potential, so that&#039;s why there aren&#039;t lines everywhere. Not drawn in on this map are places in which bus rapid transit could effectively fill in the gaps, areas where transit could be improved, but where we might not necessarily want to build a tunnel. Alameda was one such location -- although, in a different version of this map, Alameda was given BART service. Another compromise (keeping costs in mind) would be to set aside some of these lines as light rail.

This map does add service to South Berkeley, with new stations for Elmwood and Telegraph Avenue. In the post, I also mentioned the possibility of another infill station between MacArthur and Ashby, for more service in the South Berkeley/North Oakland area.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Timosha,</p>
<p>There are certainly any number of places these lines could have gone &#8212; in some versions of this map, there was also a line covering West Oakland and San Pablo, or the current line ending in Emeryville could turn south to West Oakland. I&#8217;ve tried to temper this by realistic considerations of ridership patterns and development potential, so that&#8217;s why there aren&#8217;t lines everywhere. Not drawn in on this map are places in which bus rapid transit could effectively fill in the gaps, areas where transit could be improved, but where we might not necessarily want to build a tunnel. Alameda was one such location &#8212; although, in a different version of this map, Alameda was given BART service. Another compromise (keeping costs in mind) would be to set aside some of these lines as light rail.</p>
<p>This map does add service to South Berkeley, with new stations for Elmwood and Telegraph Avenue. In the post, I also mentioned the possibility of another infill station between MacArthur and Ashby, for more service in the South Berkeley/North Oakland area.</p>
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